Devoted to the Propagation and Defense of New Testament Christianity
VOLUME 6
March 31, 1955
NUMBER 46, PAGE 2

Warren-Welch Debate

Elmer Moore, Jr., Highlands, Texas

It was my pleasure to moderate for Brother Thomas B. Warren in a debate with D. L. Welch, a oneness Pentecostal, and probably the most able contender for that sect. This debate was held in DeRidder, Louisiana, December 28-31. Brother Warren was the master of the situation from the beginning to the end. He not only took every argument away from Welch, but completely entangled and swamped Welch with affirmative arguments. A great victory for the truth was scored. The debate was well attended and order was maintained throughout. In the area around DeRidder, the Pentecostal sect is large. There were more Pentecostals present every night than there were Christians.

I want to list just a few of the many absurdities and fatal admissions that Welch made. He did one of three things in attempting to argue on the Godhead. He either made man God, or God man, or he admitted relationship in the one Godhead. Mr. Welch was asked, "Is there the relationship of 'Son' and 'Father' within the one Godhead?" He answered that Colossians 1:15 (which teaches that Christ was made in the image of God) taught that the father and son are one and the same person. But look at his logic.

  1. (All things which are said to be in the image of God) are (things which are identical with God) Welch.
  2. (Christ) is (a thing which is said to be in the image of God) 1 Corinthians 1:15.
  3. (Christ) is (that which is identical with God).

But Try His Logic On 1 Corinthians 11:7:

  1. (All things which are said to be in the image of God) are (things which are identical with God) Welch.
  2. (Man) is a thing which is said to be in the image of God) 1 Corinthians 11:7.
  3. (Man) is (a thing which is identical with God).

This, of course, has deified man. He made exactly the same type of argument on Manifestation. (This was clearly portrayed. I believe the audience could fully see the predicament Welch was in — including Welch.)

Welch in an effort to get away from the force of Tom's argument on the Mediatorship of Christ, brazenly said that Jesus was just a man. He further made this clear by arguing that only a man died on the cross. It is needless to say that Welch found himself in an embarrassing situation. He humanized Christ and had the church and remission of sins purchased by the blood of man. Some of the most obvious absurdities are:

  1. He argued that Jesus and the H.S. were the same same person. He said that John baptized the H.S.B.
  2. He said that Jesus and the H.S. were the same person and that the H.S. is the Father of Jesus — he made Jesus his own father. (Now we know where the song "I'm My Own Grandpa" came from.)
  3. He denied that the word was equal with God before he became flesh.
  4. He denied that the word was with (face to face) God.
  5. He made the father flesh and blood by his definition of a person.

Brother Warren was consistent in showing that any passage Welch brought up in an attempt to sustain his contention did one of three things: Admitted relationship in the Godhead, deified man, or humanized Jesus.

In the second proposition, Welch affirmed, "That people of today are baptized with the H.S. just like the apostles were on Pentecost (which is the New Birth)." He argued that since the church came into existence on Pentecost with H.S.B. that it must continue in exactly the same way. He admitted that the apostles were baptized with John's baptism. So you can see that he is almost ready for the Baptist ordination, since he believes the church is perpetuated by John's baptism and H.S.B. Tom showed that the church is perpetuated by divine law (Rom. 8). Some of the most obvious absurdities on this proposition are:

  1. Welch said that since Pentecost, the only way to receive the H.S. is by H.S.B.
  2. He said that one must receive H. S. B. in order to become a Son of God, whereas the apostle Paul said, "BECAUSE you are sons of God, God gives the spirit."
  3. In answer to a question Welch said that it takes BOTH water and SPIRIT baptism to put a man into Christ. But Acts 2:38 says that a person receives remission of sins before he receives the H.S. (Welch says to receive the Spirit is to receive H.S.B.) By his argument he has a person with the remission of sins out of Christ.
  4. He said that Acts 8:17 refers to H.S.B. so the Samaritans were not, according to Mr. Welch, in Christ until the apostles laid hands on them. He has these Samaritans out of Christ, yet they were baptized "into the name of Jesus Christ." (The above two absurdities show that Welch believes that one can have remission of sins, be baptized into the name of Christ and yet not be in Christ.)
  5. According to his logic on Acts 8:17, the Samaritans were saved (because they had obeyed Mark 16:16), yet they were not in Christ. Paul versus Welch 2 Timothy 2:10 salvation is in Christ."
  6. By saying in his proposition that H.S.B. is the New Birth he has taken water out of the New Birth.
  7. He says that there are TWO elements — water and spirit. Then he argued that there were three — water, fire and spirit
  8. He contradicted his proposition by saying that Acts 8, and Acts 19 were cases of H.S.B. For this Spirit was received by laying on of the apostles hands. Yet his proposition says that people receive it EXACTLY like on Pentecost.
  9. By making H.S.B. the new birth in his proposition he has Cornelius born again before he ever hears of Jesus, and before baptism in the name of Jesus.